Interview With Jonathan Safran Foer

INTERVIEW

May 3, 2009


 

Jonathan Safran Foer wrote the critically acclaimed novel Everything is Illuminated, followed by a second novel, Extremely Loud and Incredibly Close, all before he turned 29. You can pick up his books at Urban Outfitters next to Everybody Poops or at any other book store in the world. Jonathan is a vegetarian and eyeglasss enthusiast. He is married to the author Nicole Krauss, a father of two, and resides in Park Slope. He currently teaches writing at NYU, and has a new, non-fiction book, Eating Animals, coming out in November. Below, Jonathan answers some questions about eating out, eating in, and the joys of breast-milk.

 

What kind of things do you like to eat?

 

It's changed over time. When I grew up we never had dessert. I would say in the eighteen years I lived at home we never had dessert at family dinner.  And not because our parents were trying to protect our teeth or anything, it just wasn't valued. We always valued heavy, salty, starchy foods. So, in the last couple of years I've gotten much more into dessert, probably as a way of pushing against my childhood.

 

What kinds?

 

That changes too. Sometimes I like things that return to my savory days, like peanut butter brittle or something like that. I always like ice cream.  Things that are bad for me, basically are things that I like to eat. Although it's interesting, it used to be that I would eat horrible entrees and skip dessert. Now I eat very healthy entrees and eat horrible desserts. I tend to like, and would choose, things like a sea-weed salad or tofu not to be healthy, but because I genuinely like it, and then I'll eat something really miserable afterwards. 

 

Does food ever inspire you to write? Do you think there is any connection between being a writer and being an eater?

 

There are a lot of ways to think about that. First of all, literally what you eat affects how you write. If I drink coffee before I write I'm going to write very differently than if I drink beer, or eat a very heavy meal.  Turns out there are vegetarians in both of my books. It's not something I ever intended. In part, I guess I found it totally unexceptional and so I 

didn't think twice about doing it or not doing it. I think that is something quite different in the world we live in now as opposed to the one people lives in ten years ago, or twenty or thirty. Particularly among younger people there is something so unexceptional about making eating choices and not just for vegetarianism, but having a particular diet. Partly because there are so many more options now but i think younger people are more sensitive to food issues.

 

Do you cook?

 

If I want to eat, I cook. I'm the only person in our house who cooks--at all. Every meal at home, I cook. I made breakfast this morning. Last night I made lunch for my son, and probably will tonight.

 

Do you prefer eating in or eating out?

 

At times I prefer different things. I would like to be somebody who prefers eating in. I recognize that it's nicer but I get very tired, and it can be hard to cook. I never eat out, just because we have kids. I mean, one of them is a newborn so it's very hard. We wouldn't have a dining experience; the most eating out we would do is go to the neighborhood falafel place or something like that. I can't remember the last time I spent more than 20 minutes in a restaurant.

 

What is your favorite neighborhood spot, in Park Slope?

 

I love the Olive Vine, this falafel place on Seventh Avenue. There's a sushi place called Yamato. I don't eat fish but they still make tons of stuff I really like. That's on first street at Seventh Avenue. Park Slope is not a great food neighborhood. It's actually miserable. Well, that's not exactly true.  Fifth avenue is becoming a really, really good food area, but even still, it's not as good as everybody seems to say. Like Carroll Gardens and Smith Street in Cobble Hill is so much more interesting.

 

Where do you get your groceries?

 

I buy different things at different places. We get our produce at this green market once a week. We get things like breads, beans, all that kind of stuff at a place called Back to The Land in our neighborhood. And then we get specialty things at a place called Divine Taste. I like that. The whole idea of buying things in one place is part of what I see as the corruption of the food system in America, the idea that everything is available as opposed to seeking out different things in different places, and different foods for the seasons. It's a much better way to eat.

 

What is your favorite restaurant in the city-- preferably one that you've spent more than twenty minutes in?

 

There's two answers. One is Grimaldi's, the pizza place. Then I went to this vegan-korean place in Korea town and I can't remember the name of it. They serve twelve course meals and it's absolutely wonderful, and not especially expensive or fancy.  A good place to go with a friend.

 

What made you decide to become a vegetarian?

 

I've become a vegetarian many times in my life. I've gone on and off, and different times have been inspired by different reasons. I started when I was nine, very simply because I didn't want to hurt animals. It was totally uncomplicated. And then as I've gotten older the reasoning has changed. I've thought more about environmental issues, workers rights issues, sustainability issues, the wastefulness. At the end of the day it's probably still, mostly, because of animals. I guess what I mean is the older I've grown, the stronger the argument against eating meat has become in my eyes.

 

You mentioned  that you were vegan for a bit, but it didn't stick. Why didn't it work?

 

I'm going to try it again now. It didn't stick because my wife became pregnant and she had to eat certain things, or we felt at the time that she did, and it wasn't fair for me to take a step in a direction that I think she would want to as well. Also it's very hard.  Vegetarianism is very easy. Anyone who says it's hard really isn't trying, in New York. Veganism is hard. It separates you from a lot of social occasions. I don't think there's any restaurant in the city where you can't eat easily as a vegetarian. Any steakhouse will have enough good things to eat. Eating as a vegan would preclude a lot of restaurants and a lot of occasions.

 

So you and your wife, are you on the same track when it comes to eating? Would it be hard to be on different tracks?

 

It would be impossible to be on different tracks because it would feel like an accusation if one of us refrained from something the other didn't.

 

As a father of two young children, what have you found to be the ideal parent/child pleasing meal?

 

Breast-milk, because I don't have to cook it, and the baby likes it.

 

Yeah but you wouldn't eat it. Well, I don't know, maybe you would...

 

What does he like that I like? Falafel, actually, is sort of the ideal parent kid meal. It's basically as sophisticated as he will get. Obviously we will go eat pizza and that's fine. Or macaroni and cheese or whatever. 

 

What do you think of food writing. Have you read the Omnivore's Dilemma?

 

Yeah, I think it's a wonderful book. I strongly disagree with a number of his conclusions. I think the way he makes an argument is frustrating sometimes. He'll get to a certain point and then give up on it. He never asks anything of anyone that is truly uncomfortable or challenging. That being said he's a really great writer and the book was revelatory. It really opened my eyes, and everybody's eyes to a lot of things.

 

I know that you are Jewish. Do you keep kosher?

 

No. Well, incidentally I do because I don't eat meat. But when I was eating meat I did not keep kosher.

 

So I know that we can't talk about your new book, Eating Animals, which is coming out next fall, but could you tell me a little about why you wanted to write it, your inspiration?

 

I wanted to write it because I was very uncertain about how I felt and I had been uncertain for a long time and felt no urgency to get it right, but with my wife being pregnant with our first child, I suddenly felt an urgency because I would have to make decisions on his behalf, not just my own and that's different. It's a different kind of responsibility.

 

And the book is about how you personally want to deal with meat or--

 

No, it's a pretty broad argument actually. It started as that and there is a sort of personal narrative that weaves through it, but it makes an argument for other people.

 

What's you favorite kind of cereal?

 

That's easy. Puffins. Regular, original flavor.

 

Sparkling, flat, or tap water?

 

Tap.

 

Fruit of choice?

 

Is a Lychee a fruit? I think I'll do that. Even though I never eat it. It just seems like a good choice.

 

Preferred shape of pasta?

 

It depends on the sauce it's being served with, obviously. But if I could only buy one box of pasta I would probably get rigatoni.

 

Any particular brand?

 

No. I'm not snobby about that or even particular. Although canned tomatoes I get a little particular about.

 

Whole wheat or white bread?

 

Well, we always eat whole wheat.

 

Preferred juice brand?

 

Fresh made juice at a local juice bar.

 

Do you follow any blogs or restaurant critics?

 

I don't. For two reasons. One, I know that I'm never going to get to those restaurants. And also, I know that I often become neurotic about things the more I know about them and I feel like I'm already sufficiently neurotic about food that I don't need any help.

 

 

 

Be sure to check out Jonathan's book, Eating Animals, coming out next fall! 

 

 

 


Posted in FOOD on May 3, 2009 9:52pm by Jena Steinbach | 26 comments



Comments

carnivore 4:16am | May 4, 2009

You're missing out.. especially in the lard department!

nora7:24am | May 4, 2009

i. love. him. and i mean COME ON. PUFFINS? WIN!

Thomas7:40am | May 4, 2009

Peanut Butter Puffins are the best.

Cashin Your Reality Check10:07am | May 4, 2009

Park Slope douchasaurus.

David11:05am | May 4, 2009

This guy apparently knows nothing about food - Park Slope has some of the best food in Brooklyn and far exceeds Smith St - Al Di La, Convivium Osteria, Franny's, Moim, Blue Ribbon etc, etc, and if to confirm his ignorance - he picks Grimaldis as his favorite pizza???? Come on dude - this isnt 1998 anymore.

Twee Douchette11:19am | May 4, 2009

So astoundingly irritating, this guy!

Ed V11:20am | May 4, 2009

He kind of looks like Harry Potter

ugh12:30pm | May 4, 2009

I hope he doesn't actually think that being a vegetarian means support for workers' rights

very funny1:36pm | May 4, 2009

With a middle name like Saffron, of course he loves food! Doesn't diet affect everything? Have a coffee and read a book - it will be a different experience than having a pitcher of margaritas and reading that very same book! tres profound

M. Lewis1:40pm | May 4, 2009

It seems to me that Mr. Foer doesn't go out to a lot of restaurants because he has two little kids and simply doesn't have the time. What's bad about that? He doesn't say Park Slope has bad food, just that other areas are better. And he has a strong point about buying different foods at different places. An interesting interview.

John Warren 4:48pm | May 4, 2009

the site looks great. you guys are amazing. yes, i'm a little bias.

Ben2:14pm | May 5, 2009

Right, I'll trust the dude who is a vegetarian/aspiring vegan, and who also never dines out because of his children, to tell me where and where not to eat in Park Slope...or anywhere for that matter. He has the most uniformed opinion possible. This interview is a waste of bandwith.

esthermiriam2:33pm | May 5, 2009

How utterly pointless!

M. Lewis3:33pm | May 5, 2009

@ Ben: The interview was not to meant to position Jonathan as Park Slope food guide. Everyone's experience with food is different. That's what makes food special-- it reveals something about who you are as a person.

THOMAS3:42pm | May 5, 2009

@ M. LEWIS. I second that. I don't agree with his opinions (I personally love the food in Park Slope, and am also quite the carnivore) but hey... to each his own!

Sebastian5:16pm | May 10, 2009

It's funny that almost 300 restaurants and tons of good food shops (like Russo's) in Park Slope are not "as interesting" as Cobble Hill. Nothing wrong with having an opinion about food, but can someone let me know which place in Cobble Hill can beat that?

lee3:40pm | May 11, 2009

To ugh - and all those unfamiliar with the connections between labor rights and vegetarianism/veganism... Animal product industries, from slaughterhouses to concentrated animal feeding operations to seafood operations, are notorious for violations of workers rights. Smithfield, one of the world's largest hog companies, has violated labor laws repeatedly for years, including child labor laws. Slaughterhouses are frequently raided for illegal workers when it's also been documented that they purposely go out of their way to employ illegal workers so that they a) will work in what is one of the most dangerous and poorly paid jobs in this county and b) will be less likely to report violations of any variety. There are many books and reports concerning the connection between animal production industries and abysmal conditions for workers - check out the 2004 Human Rights Watch report "BLOOD, SWEAT, AND FEAR: Workers’ Rights in U.S. Meat and Poultry Plants" and the Pew Commission on Industrial Farm Animal Production.

Kendall1:39pm | May 12, 2009

*human beings

Lee7:53pm | May 12, 2009

There are no doubt worker issues in produce production, as in all industries, but I think a quick search will find that the difficulties for animal industry workers are far more pervasive and severe - hence all the documentation by non-profits, academia, media, and authors. I pay attention to such issues, as do many vegans, and support striking workers and avoid produce known to be in the midst of problematic circumstances. I am lucky to live in an area where I grow a decent amount of my produce and much of the rest I buy directly from farmers I know (and whose farms I have been to) at my local farmers market. At my local farmers market there is also a fair amount of "local and organic" meat options. The heavy majority of those farmers will admit, when asked, that their animals are slaughtered offsite - at the very same facilities where CAFO-produced animals are being slaughtered and workers rights are being aggressively violated. Your link to the NYT is a freakin' OP-ED about some crazy child-abusing people who have nothing to do with this conversation. Plenty of people are abusive to their children in various horrid ways - it really doesn't relate to any food politics. That said, to the question of the health of raising children on a NORMAL vegan diet - I know folks who were born and raised vegan, still are vegan and in their 50's and 60's - not only are they doing just fine, many of them look much younger than their meat eating counterparts and all are more active and free of many of the health issues associated with animal-based diets (such as heart disease, adult-onset diabetes, colon cancer, breast cancer, prostate cancer, and on). There are vegan sources of B-12 and DHA, both in food form and supplements, and plenty of people have B-12 deficiencies despite eating animal foods - recent Framingham data suggests nearly two-fifths of Americans are low in B-12. I've been vegan for nearly 15 years and vegetarian since I was 9 years old - I am 31 now - I am not wasting away, I kayak, scuba, spelunk, and hike, I am feeling just fine, thanks. Your communication is irrational enough to make me think that you have a personal "issue" with vegetarianism and veganism that has little to do with the weak argument you've propped up. Point is - boycotting animal-based foods has EVERYTHING to do with labor rights and basic human rights - if that's your motivation source. Those of us who profess to care about workers rights, and maintain a sense of rationality, should think A LOT more about the workers involved in bringing their meat, eggs, and dairy to the table.

Kendall11:03am | May 13, 2009

Fair enough. Congratulations on surviving with your diet. I think I'll take my chances with a diet that doesn't kill infants and has been working for thousands of years. I guess a lot of people do take issue with vegans because they always seem to talk about their diets with a certain amount of moral superiority. They might not come out and say, "You're a bad person for eating meat" but there are always loaded statements about human and/or animal rights (see: your post). That type of passive aggressiveness annoys the shit out of me. I think we will disagree that there are more human rights issues with meat than with vegetables because I think there are just as many issues with both industries. I do find it interesting that vegans are now talking human rights instead of animal rights. (I guess maybe the animal rights just doesn't have the same impact.) I think the bottom line is that you can be socially responsible with just about anything you purchase, especially meat. All it takes is asking a couple questions about the farm. (I still don't know why vegans are more concerned with the animals' sudden death than the quality of its life). I think it's hilarious that you think vegetable pickers have it better than people in the meat industry. Link me all the articles you want about industrial meat production, I can link you just as many about industrial vegetable production. P.S. The preeminent food author of our time, Michael Pollan (who I guess from the interview knows a lot less about food issues than the guy who wrote that funny book about a Jew in Ukraine) has said that getting animals back onto farms will be absolutely essential in returning to a solar-based system of agriculture and weening ourselves off chemical fertilizers and fossil fuels. The animal waste is a natural way of fertilizing the soil, and most farmers can't afford to graze animals on their fields without selling them for meat. So I guess if your issue is protecting the environment and not just trading one exploitative industry for another, omnivory is the way to go.

Lee5:18pm | May 13, 2009

If I am able to avoid buying fruits and veggies from labor violating produce corporations or any industrial source, I can't imagine what your argument is against choosing to boycott animal products associated with labor abuses? I've made clear I can avoid BOTH types of negative impact - can you say the same? I think your paranoid sense that vegans are passive aggressively judging you may be more likely a guilty conscience when faced with knowledge that is uncomfortable for you. I mentioned nothing about the issues relating to ethical responsibilities for animals - you brought it up and I have not communicated thus far regarding that aspect of the topic. "Vegans" are a wide range of people who have varying reasons for choosing their diets. Reasons I have heard include religion (by far the largest statistically), health, animal rights, environmentalism, workers rights, climate change issues, ecofeminism, cultural, and on...the reasons are endless, just like with all people's diet choices. Do you lump people who are all the same religion or ethnicity all together? "Vegans" are not all out to get you with their wicked, guilt-inducing ways. As for the sudden death versus quality of life issue, I am not even sure where you have come up with that. I haven't met anyone who really thinks that the reason industrial animal production is wrong on a moral level is because the animals are slaughtered at the end of it - it's BECAUSE the entire quality of life is so horrid that people oppose these facilities! Frankly, at every CAFO I've ever visited, most any person with a soul would wish a swift death upon the creatures inside. Perhaps your comment was based on my assertion that organic meat providers are often outsourcing their slaughter to other facilities - I brought that issue up because it relates to the rapid line speed at slaughterhouses and how that relates to workers injuries. For example, when you are buying your local, organic meat and the animals were slaughtered offsite, YOU are financially supporting a dangerous and injurious work environment for some of the most mistreated of workers in the U.S. - many of whom are employed illegally and have no recourse to address injuries and violations. I have had friends who grew up picking produce (apples, cherries, etc.) in eastern Washington - a huge, rough migrant labor situation of it's own. I choose not to buy from operations like that, nor those who use pesticides, etc. because I am concerned for workers. I was already familiar with the tomato issue you linked to and have even supported the Coalition of Immokalee Workers financially through the United Farmworkers email list I am on - and I grow my own anyway. There are many reasons that I am vegan and I would not state the workers rights aspect as primary in relation to MY food choice. I buy NO new clothing if I am not sure it's sweatshop-free - ultimately 95% percent of what I buy comes from thrift stores. I really don't buy many consumer goods overall, but when I do I make sure I know about the company, the workers, the materials, etc. These choices are very much about labor issues and my concerns for human rights. But we started this conversation with you having some terrible confusion about what the relationship is between workers rights and animal industries...I feel I've made clear those points - the industry is on the worst jobs list every year for decades - and you are pretty much not interested in documentation. Finally, in terms of health and the optimal diet - I feel sure that a vegan diet with nutrients from a wide range of sources has far more in common with any ancestral human diet than does the standard american diet (SAD). Perhaps you could move closer to the source and not have to worry about labor issues by only consuming animal products you hunt yourself? You'd have to give up dairy and eggs, but the meat you eat would be free of labor violations and have less of an overwhelming impact on global climate change. Something tells me that's not gonna happen...

Kendall 9:02am | May 14, 2009

"more likely a guilty conscience when faced with knowledge that is uncomfortable for you." Thank you for proving my point about passive aggression for me. Veganism is a luxury that people have in a society where there is a surplus of food. There are countless cultures who live in fringe environments like the dessert and arctic where vegetable production is impossible and they really on meat for their very existence, but it seems to me that your problem is with factory farms. Great. I get my eggs from local producers who have small farms and no labor issues, and my meat is slaughtered at a place called Paradise Locker Meats (look it up if you're not too busy shopping at thrift stores to clear your conscience of evil clothes shopping). Just like you don't want people to lump all vegans together, you should try not lumping all slaughterhouses together. Open your eyes and stop being so judgmental. I have one vegan friend who isn't an asshole and the rest of you are giving him a bad name.

Lee12:36pm | May 18, 2009

Open my eyes? How many slaughterhouses have you been to Kendall? I've been to hundreds thus far, I've interviewed striking workers about their severe on-the-job injuries and heard HUNDREDS of their stories of intimidation and abuse. I've sat there with translators and realized how few of the workers are legal, and how many are suffering from pretty shocking levels of human rights abuses. Sure, not every single slaughterhouse is the same, but the heavy majority of them are - that's how the industry works and, again, that's why there are academic, non-profit, and governmental reports regarding the topic. Whistleblowers will actually discuss the overt attempts of this industry to provide illegal workers with SSNs so that they (the meat industry) can have a cheap labor force that will not report public health risks or violations concerning their own treatment, much less the treatment of animals. Please take a look at journalism regarding ICE raids at American slaughterhouses in the last couple of years. Meat and dairy eating are a HUGE luxury and Americans consume a dramatically larger portion than folks in other nations...veganism specifically is more common to developed nations, perhaps as a reaction to the animal-heavy, resource-intensive diets available here, but eating low on the food chain is very common throughout the world. A traditional and sustainable diet in many developing nations has far more in common with a vegan diet based in local, organic and healthy foods than it does with the Standard American Diet. As for fringe environs and the like - Kendall, welcome to America! This is where we live and most of it doesn't classify as an environment where one needs to survive off of subsistence hunting. I am not sure where you live, but I can guess that you have the opportunity to grow some of your own produce - get to it! I imagine you are aware that Americans are consuming a much larger portion of the global animal "resources" and I can't imagine why anyone who seems to identify as an environmentalist wouldn't be working to reduce that unfair and uneven proportion - especially as we learn how much our diet for meat and dairy (from either CAFOs or small farms) has an impact on climate change. Again, it seems you are more focused on justifying your personal desires than addressing issues of the environment or human rights, etc. Am I reading this correctly - are you actually mocking my concern for avoiding sweatshop and slave labor? Wow - very impressive! It takes a pretty heartless person to mock an attempt to limit the harm we do unto others. Have you ever read about the rape, forced abortions, and forced contraceptives common in clothing sweatshop facilities? Do you have any sense of empathy for the people who suffer these circumstances? I do and mocking something as serious and brutal as that really just shows you to be an callous and ignorant person. Finally, perhaps you need to research what constitutes passive aggressive behavior just a bit more, because it often refers to communicating ambiguously or cryptically. Sure, I have a sardonic sense of humor, but it in no way could be classified as passive aggressive. I am an East Coaster living in the Pacific Northwest (the land of the passive aggressive) and I assure you, I am happy to say anything I believe to anyone without undercurrent or hidden meaning whatsoever. My comment about your guilty conscience was right out in the open. I was directly accusing you of having some bizarre reaction to other peoples food choices and not responding based on facts. You are the one that's referred to "judgement" and "loaded statements" - I would be happy to directly address this face to face, to judge and be judged without it really impacting my self esteem too dramatically. But then, for me, when I learn something negative about something I'm involved in, I research it and change my behavior in response. After all, it's not like I was born knowing about sweatshop abuses and buying thrift store clothes. At one point someone "judged" me enough to communicate what I was involved in paying for and, instead of acting like a big scared baby willing to justify my involvement in something horrible simply for my own pleasure, I CHANGED MY BEHAVIOR. I know it's a novel idea, but go for it!

Kendall11:38am | May 20, 2009

I do grow my own vegetables, but I guess it seems unlikely to you that anyone who would eat meat could do that. Guess what? I eat meat probably 1-3 teams a week and I always get my meat from non-CAFOs. You see, it's possible to eat meat and not commit human rights violations, so quit trying to say that my diet is problematic with non-related arguments. If somebody has a problem with inhumane slaughterhouses, it probably helps even more to buy meat from the good guys rather than boycotting it altogether. People need healthy alternatives to change the system because let's face it, veganism is an extreme and impractical diet. Much better if people can choose between good slaughterhouses than total abstinence. If your issue is with human rights, then make that your issue. Quit pretending it's with the actual act of eating animals. Pretty ironic that you're the one accusing me of justifying personal desires when we're both attempting to help human rights problems through our diets but you're the one on a soapbox claiming that eating meat is the problem. P.S. I'm not mocking you for your avoidance of sweatshops, but I do think it's funny that you think buying on the secondary market somehow fixes the problem. Does buying an AK-47 from a gun show instead of directly from a manufacturer really help stop the problem of too many automatic weapons in this country? The point is that there are these problems all around us and the best way to educate people isn't through finger-wagging, which you started from the very beginning.

Beau8:16pm | October 15, 2009

It's great to have more coverage on the topic of raising and eating animals in the media. I saw Foer on Larry King Live the other night, and with the help of Dr. Colin Campbell, author of The China Study, they made a pretty good argument against some meat-loving nutritionist and that horrible man/"cook" Anthony Bourdain. HOWEVER, Foer does nothing for animals when he says veganism is hard. That is a lie. He is discouraging people from straying away from cruel flesh, dairy, and eggs when he promotes vegetarianism and discourages veganism. If one is truly concerned with animal rights, the environment, and theirs and other humans' health, they should think heavily about adopting a vegan diet. Eggs and dairy are not at all free of suffering. I hope Foer tries veganism, sticks with it, and then writes another book correcting his stance and promoting a truly compassionate diet, rather that one that eliminates some cruel products, yet continues to contain many others. EAT LIKE YOU GIVE A DAMN.

Bea Elliott7:52pm | November 4, 2009

And here on Nov 4th - Mr. Foer's name and book has certainly made it's impression on the internet and on mainstream media as in the Ellen Degeneres show today... It's a subject long overdue for discussion. I hope many people reach to conclusion that there is a healthy, sustainable and ethical solution to "Eating Animals" - Go Vegan


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